Viewing #2

[the_deep_magic]

Further thoughts!  Questions answered!  Then some more questions!  And I address controversial issues in a mature and thoughtful manner!

Thoughts:

• Setting aside for the moment the plausibility that a single volcanic eruption could destroy not just a race of people or a species, but an entire planet, I wonder whose idea it was to deactivate the volcano in the first place.  It wasn't part of their original mission, it's never specifically stated that Kirk made the decision about the volcano (just about rescuing Spock), and Spock seems to accept some culpability in regards to the entire incident.  Ergo, I think Spock saw the readings that indicated that Nibiru would be destroyed and either asked permission from Kirk or was subtly given the hint by Kirk that he could stop it.  That he could save an entire planet from being destroyed.  Maybe Kirk felt extra-betrayed by the report because he thought he was allowing Spock some redemption.
• When Kirk's arguing with Pike, he says something along the lines of, "You know how many members of my crew have been killed?  None."  Then when the ship loses gravitational stability, there's a moment where Kirk tries to grab for a crew member falling past him and misses, and despite his earlier "I'm sorry" to the bridge crew, I think that's when it hits him that he is responsible for these people's lives.
• Not really a fully-fledged thought, but Kirk's face in the bar when Pike tells him, "It's gonna be all right, son."  ::wibbles::  Fuck, just some fantastic acting from Chris.  I love everyone in this bar cast and I don't want to play favorites, but I think Chris' performance is phenomenal and I really hope he starts getting some recognition for it.
• Forgot to mention this before, but loved bad-ass Sulu in the captain's chair, and the hints at him getting his own ship one day (even though Sulu only got the Excelsior because Takei refused to be on the same set as Shatner)(so I hear).
• It was good to see it in a full theater this time.  Some people still gasped when Harrison revealed himself as Khan.  People cracked up at Scotty.
• Still not sure how I feel about Spock shouting "KHAAAAAAAAN," but at least it's well-segued with a quick cut and a loud sound effect.  Nobody in the theater laughed, so that was good.
• To answer my own question re: Spock mind-melding with Khan during their fight (What the hell were they fighting on, anyway?  Will the future be full of red metal thingies zipping around in the air?), I think he was sharing his pain at, y'know, having his skull crushed in.
• Speaking of mind-melds, I wish Spock and Pike had had a bit more of a Moment when he was dying.  We only find out later that Spock was deeply affected by his emotions; I wish there had been some indication that Spock was trying to offer him some kind of comfort.  I know Pike is supposed to be Kirk's father figure, but still.
• It would appear that "Space, the final frontier..." is supposed to be the captain's oath, unless it's some kind of editing mistake.  Very weird.  Future oath-writers, lay off the Romulan ale.

Questions:

• It's specifically stated that Spock shuts down the volcano with a "cold fusion" device.  My understanding of physics (esp. made-up physics) is limited, but if they have cold fusion technology, why aren't they using that to power the ships instead of the massively unstable explosion-waiting-to-happen that is the warp core?
• Uh, okay, let's say everything with Spock's mission to the volcano had gone as planned: Spock arms the device, gets pulled back up to the shuttle, they rendezvous with Kirk and Bones on the beach.  ...and then what?  The Enterprise is still on the bottom of the fucking ocean, Scotty says it can't stay there for long, and how can it possibly maneuver underwater anyway?  You still have to get the big-ass spaceship out of the ocean without any sentient being on the planet noticing.  So the Prime Directive was fucked six ways to Sunday long before Spock went into the volcano.
• Was anyone else getting some very strong Carol/Bones vibes, even beyond the "stop flirting" bit?  Much stronger than any Carol/Kirk vibes, though I'll admit I'm prejudiced.
• What kind of jacked-up communicators do they have that lets them talk in real time across deep space?  I'll buy that a ship's computer can maybe somehow sent a faster-than-light transmission, but Kirk calling Scotty at the bar with a device flimsier than an old Razr... that's a bit of a stretch.

Controversies:

• On the end card thanking post-9-11 veterans: I haven't heard this addressed, but I wonder whether Abrams & Co.™ thought the main controversy of the movie was going to be the terrorist subplot, particularly regarding the bomb in London and the mowing down of skyscrapers in San Francisco.  Instead, everyone's up in arms about Alice Eve's bra and panties (why was she even changing in the shuttle?) and how Benedict Cumberbatch could not be whiter if he were a mole person.  I don't mean to trivialize those, because they obviously represent very large cultural issues, but it's kind of hilarious to imagine Abrams and Co.™ sitting around a table, fretting about being disrespectful to veterans, and then being completely blindsided by a semi-naked chick.
• To everyone saying that these films were Abrams' "audition" for Star Wars: that may or may not have been his intention (though only recently did we find out there would be new Star Wars films), but every film set in outer space made since 1977 has been influenced by Star Wars, visually and otherwise.  Every.  Single.  One.  Yes, even the earlier Trek movies.  Just like every fight scene since 1999 has been influenced by The Matrix.  Just like every demonic possession movie since The Exorcist has been a butt-photocopy of The Exorcist.  Blade Runner, Jaws, Psycho, etc.: there are just certain genre-defining moments that change things in film.  The same thing happens in literature and visual art.  I don't care whether you like Star Wars or not (though I can tell you if your opinion's the wrong one!), but Abrams did not make Star Trek into Star Wars, and I don't think he ever intended to.
• I haven't really said anything about the whitewashing because I don't think there's much I can add, but I will repeat something rational (gasp!) I saw on Tumblr (faint!).  It is possible that Benedict Cumberbatch played a compelling version of Khan AND that the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch in a role originated by (and named for) a man of color is a problem.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Okay, I think that's probably enough for now.  I didn't expect to like it quite as much the second time, but a few things aside, I may have liked it even more.

Comments

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

"He could have easily been made one of Khan's crew and been something of a red herring for the actual Khan"

Ooh, I like this idea. I mean, they're all genetically-enhanced superhumans, right? And his whole plan could have been to wake up Khan. I know that still kind of skirts the issue, but at least you don't have a white guy named Khan Noonien Singh.

Tell you what, you want to be in charge of writing the next movie?

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. Though I may have to pay you in used Spock ears.

[1lostoneficspot.livejournal.com]

It's en vogue to hate him? :wibbles: but wh-wh-wh... WHY??? KHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaNNNNNNNNNNNN!

(ahem I am so sorry please go back to your actual, meaningful conversation.)

EDIT: HOW DO YOU ENGLISH.

[1lostoneficspot.livejournal.com]

but it's kind of hilarious to imagine Abrams and Co.™ sitting around a table, fretting about being disrespectful to veterans, and then being completely blindsided by a semi-naked chick.

THIS. So so so much, this. Lately, they seem, from interviews and such, all UM WHAT. WHY ARE RANDOM BOOB SHOTS A PROBLEM SHE'S COVERED OKAY. instead of being hyper-aware of terrorism. I mean he went on conan to show wet, naked, buffed Cumbebrbatch as gratuitous porn some misplaced attempt to say that their editing choices weren't sexist...or something?

My question is this: If it didn't make the 100 bazillion mark its first weekend, does that mean there won't be a third one?

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

I worry about that. As far as I know, it's still doing better than XI, but that doesn't seem to be enough. BUT don't they have the actors contracted for one more movie? I dunno; I worry about this, too.

[verizonhorizon.livejournal.com]

I also got the impression that stopping the volcano was primarily Spock's idea! And Jim just went with it. Stopping it was just as much in violation of the prime directive as letting them see a starship, though perhaps one could argue over the severity/consequences of the two very different types of interference. I had figured his logic went something like, "Captain, if we do nothing, there will be nothing to study." And of course, "It is necessary to preserve life," etc. So to send a report was doubly cruel, though I honestly believe he thought he was taking blame and trying to have it not pinned all on Jim. I believe he honestly thought Jim would send a report of the mission that was truthful, and he was corroborating it. So at least his intentions were good! I'm not sure I like that Jim lied anyway. He lies when he's bluffing and he lies for the greater good, but lying about how a mission went? There's hundreds of other people on that ship who know what really happened. It wasn't like it was just the away team who vowed to secrecy. They'll look up their own mission logs and say, hey, that's not what happened. So I think it was a pretty dumb plot pont that Jim would send a false report! It would eventually be found out. However, I think it was in line with STXI Jim who thought he'd be praised for cheating on the Kobayashi Maru. (And yes, imo reprogramming it is a type of cheating.) So I did especially like Pike's speech there about how Jim believes the rules don't apply to him, and that it was a bad thing.
Also, I completely agree about their scene in the bar. That was beautiful. Beautiful! Jim finally got a dad who cares about him! A dad who can point out his flaws but NOT throw him away; just a regular punishment but you're still loved type of thing. And then Pike dies! Arrrgh! Nooo!

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

Yeah, come to think of it, Jim
a) should probably know that his First Officer submits reports, too; and
b) knows damn well Spock isn't going to lie. He may strategically omit, but he's not going to write "uneventful."
So it doesn't make quite as much sense that Jim is as surprised as he is. And you're right that his report reading "uneventful" was dumb. There was saltwater damage to the hull of the ship; of fucking course his superiors are going to want to know what happened!

[angelrox040.livejournal.com]

There's quite a few people upset over BC's being white and Khan. But I'm just not one of them. (Waits for people to call me racist/privileged). And I'm afraid to talk about the issue because of that. BC ended up being their alternative guy. They wanted Benecio Del Toro. One of my friends who identifies as American Indian (I asked for her opinion when she saw the movie) actually laughed and said they had to fall back on the white guy. She liked him as Khan and I wish people would not hate BC because he is white and judge him on how he played his character. While I won't lie and would have loved to see a person of color give their hand at this character, I believe he played a different Khan well. I wonder if people would be this upset if they had made Khan a white woman in that universe? That's what I love about AU, no old rules still apply. I guess I would be bummed more about it if they had reboot TOS to the T, and Khan was white.

But i completely agree with everything else you said above and everyone else. It felt weird that Spock felt emotionally compelled to scream KHAN when Kirk died (my shipper heart was quite ready to put in that they were just that connected) XD But I think the graphic novel/comic they are releasing were supposed to be what happened between the movies (which gives me more of an understanding that they had more time together and everything to bond as a command team/friends), and if that is the case, those who don't read/know about them, it is barely touched upon in the movie (only as a sentence where Kirk says he has lost no-one).

For the KHAAAANNN scene, I wished for more interaction between the two of them to show that closeness.

For Khan, I wished I had more to understand his rage towards Starfleet.

I felt like this was a movie with too much to do and little time to do it.

And yes, Pike was amazing. He managed to break my heart in the small time he was onscreen.

Carol/Bones is now one of my favorite pairings ;D

[angelrox040.livejournal.com]

P.S. Bones comment on delivering Gorn babies makes me believe the ST game takes place before the movie as well because they had never seen them before according to the game. In which case I can say they have been through a lot of shit together. And by shit I mean my rage at the game XD

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

I think it's bizarre that the hate's landing on BC. He's said that he accepted the role before being told who he was playing (other than the villain) and had probably already signed a contract. Plus, I've never heard of a white actor turning down a part for that reason. Not that actors are any more racist as a group than anybody else, but it's their job to make the role they're given their own. I will say, from years of doing theater, that actors as a group ARE usually arrogant enough to think they can do that perfectly. ;o)

I haven't read the graphic novels (or played the video game!), but I ought to.

[anivad.livejournal.com]

Maybe they meant 'destroy' in a figurative sense... like how it's thought that a single volcanic eruption basically killed all the dinosaurs and made life on Earth close to non-existent for a while?

"Nobody in the theater laughed, so that was good."

My theatre broke out cheering. :|

"It is possible that Benedict Cumberbatch played a compelling version of Khan AND that the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch in a role originated by (and named for) a man of color is a problem. "

I must be lucky to have awesome people on my f-list, because that's what most of them have been saying so far. XD

I actually think it would be much, much more effective if those people laid off insulting BC and/or his performance and/or his value as a person and focused solely on the race issue, because that's much more likely to get a proper, objective discussion going without BC fans - who might otherwise agree - being made defensive. I've heard that some PoC fans left the fandom because of all the racism that emerged from the discussions, and that makes me really sad. :/

I also know how I unfortunately tend to throw objectivity and a few moral principles out the window whenever someone insults a cherished fandom actor, in the course of fiercely defending them. The inner moral conflict that can result from that is horrible, and if that's been happening to any BC fan, especially if they're PoC themselves but arguing alongside genuine racists just because the opposition are bashing their guy, I feel really bad for them.

[the-deep-magic.livejournal.com]

That's true about the volcano. Or, I guess if it were a small enough planet, it could destabilize the core or the planet's distribution of mass or something. SCIENCE.

As I just said to someone else, I think it's bizarre that the hate's landing on BC. He's said that he accepted the role before being told who he was playing (other than the villain) and had probably already signed a contract. Plus, I've never heard of a white actor turning down a part for that reason. The crazy people probably already had a hate-on for BC already, didn't want Sherlock in their Trek, etc. It's Abrams/the producers/the casting director who made the call.

I have to admit, I was fine with BC being in the movie (independent of who he was playing), but I kind of didn't want BC fans infiltrating Trek fandom. I'm not going to be all SEE, I WAS RIGHT, but I guess I'm just protective of the fandom (and I don't want any Cumberbatch in my Pinto ;o)).

[anivad.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't know that BC accepted the role prior to knowing who he was playing. That definitely changes things in his favour.

I have a good amount of annoyance at (some) BC fans, but it's the same annoyance I have for any group of young, overly-enthusiastic fans. partly because they remind me of myself when I was younger, and it's embarrassing. And I was pissed off when they made up 90% of the fans who came to the NYC premiere, with some of them not even knowing who Chris or Zach were. >_>

But I have enjoyed the little I've seen of BC's work, and he seems like a decent guy, so I don't want to judge him by his fans. It is unfair that he's getting so much of the hate given how powerless actors are when it comes to things like casting or the script, plus there's the contract and everything as you mention.

everything is just a huge mess. /o\ I'm also disturbed at some of the explicit racism that emerged from that; I haven't had much direct exposure because I'm staying as far away from the wank as possible, but based on summaries from my f-list (apparently there are people saying that white actors are better at acting, anyway), there are some terrifying opinions going around.

why can't everyone just be excellent to each other.